Curse

Draikin · Aug 20, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

What a coincidence as I'm saying that the problem with tanking casters has nothing to do with aggro range.

Both are different issues with a similar outcome. The aggro range was broken and it was causing casters to be the first heroes to aggro the enemy, which in the end had the same result as the PBaoE skill issue.

sixofone · Aug 20, 2008, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Kind of makes you wonder: do they even bother to test these things out before they go live?

Or do they simply let us be the live beta?

Abedeus · Aug 20, 2008, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

Kind of makes you wonder: do they even bother to test these things out before they go live?

Or do they simply let us be the live beta?

What do you think GW:EN is if not a beta we had to buy?

Regina Buenaobra · Aug 20, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

The devs have been keeping an eye on the threads and all your comments and descriptions about overly aggressive Henchmen; they have been testing and evaluating some changes. Depending on the results, those changes may go live in an update this week.

upier · Aug 20, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The devs have been keeping an eye on the threads and all your comments and descriptions about overly aggressive Henchmen; they have been testing and evaluating some changes. Depending on the results, those changes may go live in an update this week.

Super duper thanks for looking into it.

Stolen Souls · Aug 20, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Well at least we know they're looking at it now. Hopefully they'll be able to recreate/see the issues and fix them.

R.Shayne · Aug 20, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I was in Rragar dungeon last night as a 600 / smite and I took dunk setup as a healer to keep Ogden alive. When I was at the ranger boss (Charr Warden) dunk ran away from his flag and passed me up and was almost to the locked door. I had him flagged at the entrance to the room and there was no one ahead of me for him to heal so I have no clue why he ran pass me.

The dungeon was pretty interesting, Dunk couldn’t decide between healing Ogden and healing me so he basically ran back and forth between the two of us.

Draikin · Aug 20, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Good to hear they're looking into the issues, I hope they take into account the problems in Hero Battles as well. While the offensive range on casters was decreased, it's almost as if their defensive range was actually increased, causing healers to overextend more than they used to from their flag. They also seem to abandon the shrines they're supposed to guard when kiting from foes more easily.

Widowmaker · Aug 20, 2008, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

The dungeon was pretty interesting, Dunk couldn’t decide between healing Ogden and healing me so he basically ran back and forth between the two of us.

I've had a similar thing once or twice now with the summoned assassin. Puff of smoke, appears next to his target, jogs back to me rather than attacking then finally runs back to his target and starts his attacks.

Maybe he did that before, I'm not sure, obviously now I'm consciously looking to see what they do.

But either way, I'm guessing he isn't supposed to be doing that.

Abedeus · Aug 20, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

defensive range was actually increased, causing healers to overextend more than they used to from their flag.

Tad true be too. I tried to get Masters on Dzagonur Bastion h/h so I took Livia as minion master to defend one side of the wall while I defend center and the other side. Guess what - Livia constantly tried to get into the center and wand enemies, even if all minions were out of her range. Took me 5 times before I just flagged her in the middle of Acolytes on the east side of wall and then she finally stood there and guarded...

No, wait. She didn't. She was kiting all the time, even if on she was on Guard all the time. I think Guard = More aggressive Avoid with overboosted range?

Rushin Roulette · Aug 20, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

You guys see this the wrong way. Anet did a great job in improving the H/H behaviour. They studied PUG players and programmed the heroes to act like every other overextendign warrior, leeroyign ele and healing touch monk.

They put the "I" back into AI (on the theory that PUGs are capable of real "I" )

upier · Aug 20, 2008, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette

You guys see this the wrong way. Anet did a great job in improving the H/H behaviour. They studied PUG players and programmed the heroes to act like every other overextendign warrior, leeroyign ele and healing touch monk.

They put the "I" back into AI (on the theory that PUGs are capable of real "I" )

Nah, they put back the "I" into "I quit".

Chthon · Aug 21, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Shayne

I was in Rragar dungeon last night...

I also had a problem with the Rragar dungeon last night. At the start of the second level, Talon decided he wanted to chase one of those mobs that flees and chased them right through the door -- which promptly closed behind him. He wasn't seen again for half the level. Overly aggressive much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The devs have been keeping an eye on the threads and all your comments and descriptions about overly aggressive Henchmen; they have been testing and evaluating some changes. Depending on the results, those changes may go live in an update this week.

That's good to hear.

While they're at it, any possibility of reverting Order of Undeath for PvE? The latest change was not a good one. In fact, it completely ruined what had been an excellent skill for PvE purposes. (I understand that it improved from awful to mediocre for low-end PvP purposes.)

-Makai- · Aug 21, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The devs have been keeping an eye on the threads and all your comments and descriptions about overly aggressive Henchmen; they have been testing and evaluating some changes. Depending on the results, those changes may go live in an update this week.

Awesome. Thanks for keeping us informed.

Kook~NBK~ · Aug 21, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Thanks for fixing Devona, she seems to behaving much more rationally. HOWEVER: Your other changes to MMs and Heroes/hemchmen with support type builds makes me want to cry!

I tested out Olias as MM, and if there were no living enemies nearby, he wouldn't raise minions when corpses were available. HORRIBLE CHANGE!! That's just one symptom of the overall problem, though. It seems that the proximity of ememies determines whether H/H's use skills or not. This is a BAD THING, and here's some proof:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...kNBK/gw400.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...kNBK/gw401.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...kNBK/gw402.jpg

Reverting H/H to the way they were before the update that caused all this ado would have been a much better solution!

MercenaryKnight · Aug 21, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Yep I watched my minion master sit there without casting summoning spells. Also if you go to isle of the nameless and stand at the top of the stairs just before the 60al/100al dummies with a hero with a hex removal, they will run 2 aggro bubbles to the master of magic guy who has the hexes/ enchants on him (by the torches) and start/ stop casting hex removal a dozen or so times.

mr_stealth · Aug 21, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

It seems that the proximity of ememies determines whether H/H's use skills or not.

This seems to be the case. They will not res a dead party member unless there is an enemy within 2 aggro bubble radii of them, even if the dead person is within that range.

Can be easily demonstrated with isle test dummies and 2 heroes (1 with res, 1 with sac/suicide). Kill the sac hero near the top of the steps, then slowly walk the other hero towards him. They won't start casting a res untill they are close enough to the dummies, even if that means being only a few feet away from the dead hero.

Kushiels_Scion · Aug 21, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Have they been changed for the worse since todays most recent update or have they been fixed?

Draikin · Aug 22, 2008, 12:59 AM // 00:59

There seems to be an undocumented update that changes the way they use skills that they used to maintain constantly (Divine Boon, Preparations, certain spirits,...). Now, they'll activate them when there are enemies in range. This works great for spirits like Life which they used to spam constantly before, but of course it's far from ideal for MM skills. I'm not sure if this particular change was actually intended to be released or not since it's not mentioned in the updates, in any case it's an interesting idea that still needs to be tweaked so that it's only used for skills that actually benefit from this change.

upier · Aug 22, 2008, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

I tested out Olias as MM, and if there were no living enemies nearby, he wouldn't raise minions when corpses were available. HORRIBLE CHANGE!! That's just one symptom of the overall problem, though. It seems that the proximity of ememies determines whether H/H's use skills or not. This is a BAD THING, and here's some proof:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...kNBK/gw400.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...kNBK/gw401.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...kNBK/gw402.jpg

Reverting H/H to the way they were before the update that caused all this ado would have been a much better solution!

This.
I am very vocal that MMs are insanely overpowered - but trashing them by making the AI dumber is a Smiter's Boon approach to it.